Question to Transsexuals About Genitals?
I’m confused by something Erica just said.
"There are also people who describe themselves as Transsexuals (or Transexuals), who have undergone hormone treatment, possibly feminizing surgeries, breast implants, and they are quite comfortable using their male equipment sexually. Most of these people work in the porn industry or other forms of sex trade. They are often referred to by the pejorative "shemales." Though most of them would disagree, I do not believe these people are Transsexual… they’re more like extreme fetishists, or gay men who have feminized themselves."
So if you’re comfortable having sex and using your penis then you aren’t a true transsexual woman?
I don’t understand this at all, there are many transsexual males who don’t want a phalloplasty and are quite happy using their vaginas for sex, but they are still transsexual. If we all agree that genitals don’t determine gender then why is it necessary in order to be considered a transwomen you have to want a vagina?
Isn’t being a transsexual just the fact of having the wrong sexed body in comparison to the sex of the brain?
We all suffer with our bodies differently, some transsexuals don’t feel that bad about their genital area.
Then what is buck angel then? He has stated he likes his vagina and enjoys having sex using it…so what is he a "male-she" and not a transsexual.
I think a transsexual is just someone suffering a brain and body mismatch, people experience dysphoria in many different ways.
To Erica But the very existence of transsexuals prove that gender isn’t determined by genitals. We’re basically saying that you’re female because your brain is and i’m male because my brain is, that when it comes to gender you will always be female no matter whether you have one penis or 7 attached to you.
I just don’t think its as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Transsexuals like buck angel fully identify as male but yet don’t desire to have a penis, he’s happy with his vagina. I think it’s a case of what your dysphoric about and what you’re not.
I don’t really agree with your definition of a transsexual either. It’s more than just desiring body parts. Ultimately a transsexual person is someone whose brain and body oppose each either in terms of sex and extreme dysphoria is the side effect of this. What your dysphoric about is surely dependent on the individual? Isn’t it possible to be transsexual but be ok with your genitals?
I don’t mean to offend you.
It sounds as though your definition of transsexual is looser than hers. I find that definitions have a great impact on arguments of this nature, especially, for example, when people argue about what makes a person homosexual. It’s as if you are looking at a bunch of tiles http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bd/Color_icon_blue.svg/300px-Color_icon_blue.svg.png and all calling them blue, but each is seeing a different tile and thinking "now that’s blue."
Well that’s just my take on it.
I have only thumbs down, but you see that there is a fair share of heterogeneity in the answers here.
well i can only talk about myself in this , i don’t have a problem using my you know what for sex , but at the same time in other times i’m really dysphoric about my genitails and want it to change so bad , but maybe during sex i’m in a different state where i forget i even have a body or merge with the partner , idk , but during sex/cuddling i’m even less dysphoric than usual
but i don’t know any transsexual person who wouldn’t want to undergo srs , except androgynes and they look androgynous (neither male nor female)
so what i’m trying to say here is , when someone undergoes transition fully except the srs part , their either can’t afford it , or for anyother reason (like being to worried of the results) but wether they go through srs or not , every transsexual i know genuinely want to , but it differs how bad they do , i know A LOT of transsexual mtfs who are fully transitioned except for the srs part and some can afford it but too scared to do it yet they want to . as for people who call themselves ‘shemales’ to be honest i can’t imagine how would someone accept that term on themselves , and i’m not judging anyone here , but I agree with erica on what she said about them
just because genitalia doesn’t determine gender identity doesn’t make them unimportant or irrelevant. i don’t think i would personally describe anyone who is satisfied with their genitalia as transsexual….transgender works i guess.
an identifying factor for transsexuals would be to at least "wish" for a body to match the Identity. that’s not to say that all transsexuals would be willing to die for grs…..but if reasonable, i’d think any transsexual would want it.
and that some transsexuals have "used" their genitalia as sex organs doesn’t really say much. it’s what they’ve got, and for many…if not most…they want to make it work. but, if you asked someone if they’d have grs if it was affordable and risk free…..i think any transsexual will say yes to that.
much love and hope. pj
I agree with you, for the reasons mentioned. Also, it’s not anyone’s place to make assumptions about whether or not someone is or isn’t a transsexual. If someone tells you they are, they probably are.
There’s nothing wrong with using what you have to achieve pleasure. The mind is the most important sex organ and the rest is just semantics. If a transsexual person can enjoy using their sexual parts despite dysphoria, more power to them. These kind of attitudes only create more mental turmoil and stigma surrounding transsexual people’s bodies than they already experience.
During the onset of the discovery of transsexualism, professionals believed that a true transsexual had cross gender feelings at a young age, hated their genitals, were only attracted to their same physical sex, and took on the opposite gender role. I fit into this category
If they were lesbian transwomen or gay transmen, they weren’t considered " real transsexuaIs".
Now, they have come to the understanding that some transsexuals don’t have a presence of" gender identity disorder" until later in life( secondary transsexual), and their sexual orientation varies. The main point is how they feel inside.
There should be a scale that measures the levels of dysphoria among transsexuals. It varies from one transsexual to the next.
There are some ftms that can have intercourse , and can even carry a child! It seems that comfortability varies depending on the level of dysphoria one feels.
As for transsexuals opting out of bottom surgery, many ftms are dysphoric about their genitals but we have fewer options because penile surgery is expensive, not realistic looking, not fully functional. Medical technology is not there yet. For some transsexuals, expense is an issue.
For me it comes down to WHY did they transition.
Did they transition to be the woman they are or did they transition simply to work in the sex industry. I’m really don’t want to name anyone, but there are people that aren’t transsexual who transition for that purpose. I believe a larger number of transsexual women get involved out of desperation and get trapped in the industry. I think it’s unfair to paint everyone in the sex industry as being a fetishist or feminized gay men.
Buck Angel transitioned because he IS a man. He may work in the sex industry, but anyone who’s seen an interview with him will have no doubts about his gender identity.
My 2 cents.
a little story about how i felt pre-op:
one night i was in bed. i rolled over, felt something brush across my leg and thought "what the hell was that?" then i realized what it was…
i was never any particular sex in my dreams for a long time, but often had a dream where i was naked in a very public place and was desperately trying to hide. then i was a woman in my dreams, and i didn’t have to hide any more.
Let me clarify, I didn’t mean to imply that ANY Transsexual woman who retains her male genitalia is not Transsexual. As Paula mentioned, there are many exceptions that are beyond a person’s control. Some people are unable to undergo surgery. Some people don’t have the financial resources (though that is a solvable problem.) Some people are simply too afraid of the risks. Some people have obligations that prevent them from doing it.
I do believe that, given the opportunity, most (if not all) Transsexual people (male or female) would choose to have the correct genitals for their gender. For Transsexual women, the results of GRS are very realistic and functional, so it seems bizarre to me that a person who identifies as female wouldn’t want to take advantage of this. Individuals who PREFER to keep their male equipment permanently and use it to make money are obviously not suffering from Transsexualism as defined by the Standards of Care. It’s a pretty safe bet that virtually none of these individuals are seeing a gender therapist with the ultimate goal of GRS, since the business they are in demands they have a functioning penis. This means that continuous hormone therapy is also a problem for them, and I’ve never met or spoken to any Transsexual female who wants to stop and start hormones for the purpose of using her penis.
I cannot speak as to what Transsexual men go through, since it’s such a drastically different experience, but the few options they have when it comes to acquiring functional male genitals leave them with little choice but to use what they have. I know from personal experience that testosterone pretty much demands that you use what you have, like it or not. I would think that the vast majority of Transsexual men, even those who are comfortable using their vaginas for sex, would prefer to have a functioning penis if the could.
It’s easier to "get rid of" undesirable body parts than it is to create desirable ones. A Transsexual man’s breasts are a perfect example. They can be removed, the results are very good, so getting rid of them is pretty much a universal desire amongst Transsexual men. I haven’t spoken to too many Transmen, but I’ve yet to encounter one who said they wanted to keep their breasts.
Defined, Transsexualism is basically a desire to be rid of the anatomy you were born with, and acquire the anatomy you should have been born with. That’s all there is to it. To only want certain parts of the desired anatomy means what… that you are only partly Transsexual? I don’t think so. If I could wake up tomorrow with a 100% fully correct female body, no surgery, no strings, I’d take it in a heartbeat. I believe every other Transsexual woman in the world would as well, and if the the same thing were possible for Transsexual men, I believe they all would take it too. If there are a few fringe cases who specifically want "mixed parts" I don’t see how they meet the criteria of Transsexualism as defined by WPATH.
This probably wont make me any friends but it is just my opinion.
In my opinion there are transsexual women that have to keep there penis. Financially they may never be able to afford it. There may be underlying medical issues that prevent it such as hemophilia.
Why should a woman be denied sexual pleasure because of her surgical status. That said I do not know any transsexual women that desire to use there penis to penetrate there partner, considering she could even maintain an erection long enough to do that. I think it all comes down to every one is different and has there own limits.
However I do feel there are many people that say they are transsexual that are not. There are the extreme fetishist. The gay porn performer that has feminized his body. The extreme cross dressers that think it is all about the clothes. Go into most chat rooms that cater to trans people and there full of them. They will be the 50 something that tries to act like a 18 year old girl. They will often stat a sentence with (giggle). Excuse me while i go get sick after about 30 seconds of that . I personally do not feel these people are transsexual women at all but playing girl.
I am not going to comment on the guys as I do not really know any in real life. I would love to know a few to form friendships with but living in a remote area that isn’t very likely. All I will say is that as I understand it most of the guys do not have phalioplasty dur to the aesthetics and functionality of the penis. I apologize if I am wrong.